League Points System

Subject: League Points System Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:24 pm

At Ditton we go by a somewhat different way of making battles fair, the way we are talking about is using the pokemon tiers to determine how many points a pokemon is worth.

In order for you to participate in the league your team must be no more than 4 points.

With the new 5th Generation tiers come new opportunities as well as quite a few changes, first off there's a new tier called Rarelyused, which I think is similar to NU. As well as that NFE is now called Little Cup, Blaziken has been moved from UU to Uber; mainly due to it's new ability - Speed Boost. For obvious reasons I can't go through all the changes, however I'm sure you'll pick them up once you've looked through the new lists.

Here is a list of each tier and how many points it gives your team:

Uber - +7
Overused (OU) - +4
Borderline (BL) - +2
Underused (UU) - 1
Rarelyused (RU) - -3
Little Cup (LC) - -5

Tiers:

Spoiler:

If there are any changes then please notify me in this thread so that I can update the lists, as I'm not always checking the tiers.

Thank you.

Subject: Re: League Points System Sat Aug 20, 2011 4:59 pm

Well, it's quite the wrong idea to be telling people they can't be using these so called uber Pokemon; that's basically saying that you can have a choice of any coloured Smarty you want, just as long as it's not Blue, Orange, Brown, Pink, Purple or Green because you think those colours are horrible.

You've also got to ask yourself what makes an uber Pokemon; it is their natural high stats, the way they're trained, the movesets they're given, or the way they're used? Either one of those could make a Pokemon worthy enough to be an uber, so I don't see the point in limiting people to the Pokemon they use just because you're afraid that they may be slightly stronger than other Pokemon who aren't trained correctly.

If you know how to play Pokemon, then you should know how to properly train a Pokemon for it to be an equal fight. Lets say that you have a Fighting typed uber Pokemon, which is indeed very tough; you know that Fighting types are weak against Psychic, so why not use a Psychic Pokemon to take it out? It's as simple as that really - the basics of Pokemon.

I personally don't go by the ubers list, nor do I know of any Pokemon on the list. If I've constructed a team which apparently has some ubers in it, then it's not at all my fault. I don't have to abide by these made-up rules at all, because they're not even official. I build my teams out of Pokemon I both like, and ones that I think will stand a good chance in a fight; I don't go around making teams out of legendaries and expect people to call that fair though.

Having somebody say "Oh you're not allowed to use that Pokemon because it is Uber." sounds both silly and childish, not to mention making yourself sound like somebody who's afraid of battling the team. You could easily have an Uber and train it the wrong way, resulting in the Pokemon becoming utterly worthless and easy to beat. It's about training the Pokemon with skill and knowledge, not picking Ubers for the sake of it.

Subject: Re: League Points System Sat Aug 20, 2011 8:38 pm

Riolu wrote:: Well, it's quite the wrong idea to be telling people they can't be using these so called uber Pokemon; that's basically saying that you can have a choice of any coloured Smarty you want, just as long as it's not Blue, Orange, Brown, Pink, Purple or Green because you think those colours are horrible.

Having somebody say "Oh you're not allowed to use that Pokemon because it is Uber." sounds both silly and childish, not to mention making yourself sound like somebody who's afraid of battling the team. You could easily have an Uber and train it the wrong way, resulting in the Pokemon becoming utterly worthless and easy to beat. It's about training the Pokemon with skill and knowledge, not picking Ubers for the sake of it.

Except the colour of the smarty doesn't effect how strong the smarty is. Therefore, an invalid comparison.

I never said you're not allowd to use ubers, but to balance out the team they give more points so that you have to use something not so good. It doesn't sound silly or childish, it sounds fair. Training a uber with "skill and knowledge" will make it near enough to impossible to defeat, hence why we're using this system, whether you like it or not.

You can carry on complaining and be refused entry into the league for not abiding by our rules, or you can spend a good five minutes looking through the tiers and creating a good team which meets the requirements.

Subject: Re: League Points System Sat Aug 20, 2011 9:55 pm

The colour of a Smarty was used as a comparison because that's how stupid it sounds, so no, it's not at all invalid.

If you were to train an Uber with a good amount of EV training so much so that it became very tough, then that's completely fair; if people are willing to take their time and train for hours and hours, then they completely deserve to be using what they have gotten out of it. Also, as I said earlier - if you know how to play Pokemon, then you'll be able to figure out its weakness and defeat it.

I'm not at all going to chance my team apart from the Kyurem that I wasn't sure about anyway, so if it doesn't meet your petty little standards then too bad.

Subject: Re: League Points System Sun Aug 21, 2011 9:36 am

No, you sound stupid for using a stupid comparison which is invalid.

Completely fair meaning much higher stats and far better moves, oh okay.

Actually, it's too bad for you. You won't be allowd to be a gym leader of participate in the league. rabbit

Subject: Re: League Points System Sun Aug 21, 2011 3:18 pm

What do you mean much higher stats and better moves? Don't you know that you can teach many other Pokemon the same movesets, so having a good moveset is completely up to the trainer and is definitely not limited to an Uber classed Pokemon. Higher stats can be obtained through breeding Pokemon with perfect IVs and also by EV training, so it's really your choice as to how much effort you want to put into getting the best out of your Pokemon.

I don't care if I can't be a gym leader, I'm keeping this team as it is. Tough luck.

Subject: Re: League Points System Fri Aug 26, 2011 10:05 am

What about pokemon Black and White new people they arn't on the list.

Subject: Re: League Points System Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:48 pm

Well, at least your point about requiring less training makes more sense. But still, the main reason I'm against this is specifically because I know most people on here are using the AR to speed up EV training, so it's not like they're at a disadvantage here.

Subject: Re: League Points System Sat Aug 27, 2011 3:37 pm

We're talking about team disadvantages here, what you could do training wise in a week without the AR you could do in a day with it; that's all there is to it, we're not hacking for illegal stats or anything.

Subject: Re: League Points System Mon Aug 29, 2011 12:51 am

Well, is there any clue as to when the Generation IV tier list is coming out?

Subject: Re: League Points System Mon Aug 29, 2011 5:19 pm

Updated first post with 5th Gen tiers and extra information; you can now count up your points.

Subject: Re: League Points System Mon Aug 29, 2011 9:25 pm

Well, I finish with a total of 8 points if the UU are -1, and 10 points if the UU are +1.

EDIT: Actually, taking a look through these tiers, it isn't possible to build a Dragon team with fully evolved forms without going over the limit. This is completely ridiculous, who on earth would want to hold back their Pokemon from evolving all the way up to level 100?

If you're saying that I can't use a Dragon type team because it's over the limit, then that's just being picky. The people who create these tiers basically pick out Pokemon they don't like fighting against and go "Oh, lets put that in the Uber list so nobody can use it."; it's practically a way of saying "I'm too scared of fighting other Pokemon that might beat me, so I'll stop other people using them so I can always win."

Subject: Re: League Points System Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:22 am

It makes it fair so people can't just use ultimate teams with hydriedgon and things like that and give noboady a chance to beat them. A gym leader is not meant too be so hard thats its impossible to beat it.

Subject: Re: League Points System Tue Aug 30, 2011 9:34 am

I find myself, once again, reiterating what has already been posted above. The reason this system is in place is stop unfair play, using more powerful Pokemon gives you an advantage, it's as simple as that. We want the league to be as fair as can be. We're not stopping you from using anything, but if you want to have a role in this league then you must make it fair for others.

Subject: Re: League Points System Tue Aug 30, 2011 3:28 pm

TheDeamonCarrot wrote:: You just don't understand Pokemon whatsoever, A Dragon team has too many Ubers, Ubers have too many good stats meaning some noob, like you would make almost a whole team of them and there team would be too difficult to beat, it's nothing to do with training, their stats are too good, You will need NFEs and that to make a Dragon team if not choose a different type.

Actually, I probably understand Pokemon far more than you. The tier list has absolutely nothing to do with
official Pokemon gameplay, so that does not even come into understanding Pokemon. People complaining about Ubers is just like a child whining to his mother that he doesn't always get what he wants.

Storm wrote:: It makes it fair so people can't just use ultimate teams with hydriedgon and things like that and give noboady a chance to beat them. A gym leader is not meant too be so hard thats its impossible to beat it.

I've been through this before; know how to play Pokemon = know how to beat any team = can beat any team. Also, I don't think anyone in their good mind would construct a Pokemon team solely out of the same Pokemon, merely because of all the disadvantages that come along with it.

Psyneku wrote:: I find myself, once again, reiterating what has already been posted above. The reason this system is in place is stop unfair play, using more powerful Pokemon gives you an advantage, it's as simple as that. We want the league to be as fair as can be. We're not stopping you from using anything, but if you want to have a role in this league then you must make it fair for others.

It's not as if my team is made up of six Uber-classed Pokemon which have been EV trained and bought to level 100; I'm using a set that I picked myself, without knowledge of the tiers, and then bred for perfect IVs for a long time. I haven't gotten any of these through trades, hacks, or anything else for that matter, so their stats could easily turn out bad if it wasn't for the IVs or EV training them correctly. I mean, I've seen this happen before; I've trained up a naturally strong Pokemon without EV training and in the end, I had something which wouldn't stand a chance what-so-ever in a fight.

Subject: Re: League Points System Wed Aug 31, 2011 11:24 am

I personally think that the whole idea of a tier system is ridiculous. At least, the names of the tiers anyway. OU reffers to the more powerful non-ubers, however, it means Over Used, meaning that anything could be in that tier, it just depends on how many times the folks over at Smogen see it used.
As a whole the tier system is stupid because it could limit people from using their favourites. For example, say my favourite pokemon is Bronzong and I use it very often and have raised it to level 100 from an egg and spent an ungodly amount of time trying to get perfect IVs and have EV trained it also, basically put in loads of time to get it how I want it. Then I go to battle people who say 'No OUs!' I wouldn't be allowed to use my favourite pokemon. And that's what it is to me, building a team of my favourite pokemon, not ones that are the strongest. I myself am fortunate enough that my favs e.g. Muk, Gardevoir and Grumpig don't fall into this category that people frown upon, but some people are and I think that it's not in the spirit of the game to limit what people can use.

Subject: Re: League Points System Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:29 pm

Mainly because the 'folks over at Smogon' are intelligent enough to realise when something gets used a lot online, it gets used for a reason. Either it has high stats, a great ability, or just an all round good Pokemon. They don't pull these lists out their arses, hence why it took so long to make the 5th Gen tiers.

As mentioned before, we're not stopping people from using anything. However, if you're using an uber Pokemon (which is fine) then the only thing we're asking from you is to include a Pokemon which isn't as strong. We want teams to be balanced, that's the bottom line here. You can go many different ways to achieve that. If you have a favourite Pokemon in the OU catagory, then by all means use it.

We're not frowning upon anything, apart from unfair teams. We like Ubers just as much as we like LCs. We're not asking for much, and believe me when I say we'd get a lot more complaints if we let everyone use whatever the hell they liked.

Subject: Re: League Points System Wed Aug 31, 2011 12:36 pm

I understand that you guys personally aren't frowning upon these things. I'm just saying that, apart from ubers, tiers aren't something that I agree with, mainly because there are people out there who are really prudent on them and say things like 'you MUST only have one OU and 5 RUs'. To be honest, I pity those people.
And if that's true, why isn't Clefable in the OU tier? It can have THE best ability, magic guard (I think that's what it's called) and an imense amount of defensive and offensive ability, as well as a huge move pool. I guess that what I'm trying to say here is that every single pokemon has the potential to be in the OU list, which thereby makes it redundant.

Subject: Re: League Points System Wed Aug 31, 2011 1:03 pm

Immense offensive ability? It can't get higher than 295 on the offensive side. I admit, it can be a great wall, but it can only reach a max defensive of 262 with a beneficial nature. It's no match for other OU walls like Blissy, Bronzong, Jellicent and Vaporeon.

Subject: Re: League Points System Wed Aug 31, 2011 3:05 pm

Exactly. I even noticed that Espeon is now in the Uber list, and that's only because of it's new Dream World ability "Magic Bounce". It's silly, because someone could be using an Espeon in their team without the ability, and thus would stand the same chance in winning as someone who was using something from the LP list. Even so, preventing people from using it is just wrong because it means that the brand new ability for the Pokemon and the people lucky enough to actually obtain one don't even get to try it out because of people complaining that it'll be unfair all the time.

Pokemon is not about making tiers and preventing people from using other Pokemon, it's about having fun and being competitive. The community at Smogon take Pokemon way to seriously, which is why they take ages to make these tiers and write essays about why certain movesets/items/abilities/EVs are fit for a Pokemon in a certain team. Really, the only people that should be using the tiers is themselves, not other people outside of that community.